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Podcast Transcript

Episode 27: Period and Hormonal Health

Exploring the Transpersonal Model, Consciousness, and the Healing Impulse

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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Holistic Health Show, where the worlds of science and spirituality converge to illuminate a path towards total well being. Join us as we embark on a journey to bridge the gap between Western medicine and complementary therapies, offering you a roadmap to embrace a proactive, holistic approach to your health.

[00:00:21] It's time to empower yourself with choices that nurture your body, mind, and soul. Welcome to a world of infinite possibilities for your optimal health.

[00:00:31] Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Holistic Health Show. Thanks for joining us again today. I am very excited to announce that we have Anjali joining us today. She's a dance movement therapist and a transpersonal art therapist. therapist. Anjali, I don't know what all of those things mean. I can make a couple of educated guesses, but I would love for you to just jump right in, tell us what it is you do and just go into, I guess, a [00:01:00] brief description of, you know, what is transpersonal art and how does dance movement therapy work?

[00:01:06] Thank you, Amy. It's a pleasure to be here with you. It's always tricky to answer that question. The simplest way uh, we'll start with, with dance movement therapy. So the simplest way to understand dance movement therapy, I often ask people, have you ever had a good dance and felt really great at the end of that and felt like you released something, expressed something, cleared something, moved through something, literally, metaphorically.

[00:01:43] That is what we harness. in dance movement therapy. So we harness the transformative potential of dance, which is every living creature's birthright. I was going to say every human being, but actually all [00:02:00] living creatures dance. And even just as I'm saying that, I'm aware that you know, your listeners and possibly yourself as well you're, you're having those thoughts that, you know, I don't dance.

[00:02:14] And that's actually what makes it such a rich area to, to work in because it brings up all of these things that have come in the way of us expressing our true essential. Soul, self, and since I mentioned the word soul, that's a good segue into the transpersonal model. I'm, I'm getting into, I'm, I'm hopefully I'm getting into getting better at, at segues.

[00:02:48] So transpersonal model, trans means beyond. Okay. So, Beyond the personal, beyond the ego, that's what [00:03:00] transpersonal means. So it's about this whole realm of experience beyond what you can see, hear, touch, and taste. It includes what we might call the paranormal. It includes things like kundalini experiences, dreams, meditative states.

[00:03:20] Trans dance, ecstatic states that all comes within this model of the transpersonal. So, uh, the transpersonal approach is what we would call the fourth wave in psychology. So just before the transpersonal, we had the humanistic approach. Actually, let me go. Instead of going backwards, I'll go forward. So we, we started with psychoanalysis.

[00:03:48] People may have heard of Freud and Jung. Then you have what's called behavioral psychology, psychotherapy. So you may have. come across something called [00:04:00] CBT, which is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. That comes from the behavioral model. After the behavioral model, we had the humanistic approach. And I'll pause there because the humanistic approach I think, for me personally, forms a big part, it's one of the foundation stones of the transpersonal model for me.

[00:04:23] And the humanistic approach is really simple, there's a guy called Carl Rogers who said that just like a seed has everything inside of it to grow into a plant and a tree. That's beautiful. Yeah, all it needs is the right conditions, right? It needs sunlight. It needs soil, fertile soil, and it needs water.

[00:04:47] So he talks about the conditions for the therapeutic session to be successful. And he says we, we need the three conditions which are [00:05:00] unconditional positive regard, accurate empathy, and congruence. And congruence is this idea of being transparent with your client or with the person that you're working with, but also being in tune with your own process, your own stuff that's coming up.

[00:05:21] So I'm not just sharing, you know, when I'm working with clients, I'm not just sharing what I'm observing in them, but I'm also sharing what I'm observing in myself. So these three conditions. Are what forms the bulk of the humanistic approach. And then the next wave was the transpersonal model. And so there's a few key elements of the transpersonal model, and I will try and keep this short because I'm a science geek and I'm

[00:05:54] more than happy for you to go into a little

[00:05:56] bit of detail and I'll, you know, just try and stick [00:06:00] to the key points, but also this is sort of A passion project for me.

[00:06:05] I'm, I'm getting ready to launch my own podcast as I've mentioned to you in our, in our chat. And one of the themes of that is this idea of a spiritual approach. So the transpersonal approach is, as I said, it's beyond the personal, but it's also a psycho spiritual approach. Meaning that it's got a psychological aspect and then there's a spiritual aspect and it recognizes that there is a spiritual dimension to the human experience.

[00:06:34] All right. Now, I feel I need to explain what, like, describe what spirituality means in this context. Absolutely. Often it's kind of wishy washy or woo woo or new agey and it's not that, all right? It's just basically one of the key at the core of this idea of [00:07:00] spirituality is meaning making, all right?

[00:07:02] We need to make meaning of our experience. When we lose meaning, we feel hopeless. And you know, life is meaningless. Relationship is meaningless. This job is meaningless. And we consider those to be meaningless. spiritual issues. So loss of meaning is, is a spiritual issue. You've lost connection with some greater intelligence, right?

[00:07:35] So whether you call that source or God or nature or science or Whatever it is. Yeah, that relationship to something transcendent, to something that is greater than our ego intelligence, let's say. Something that gives you purpose, I suppose. Purpose can be part of that. Okay. Purpose is[00:08:00] I mean, it's a, it's a tricky one because you might say that your purpose is to be fully alive.

[00:08:10] That is, that is your purpose. And that might include things like, you know, being passionate about particular subjects or themes or, you know, advocacy or things like that. But essentially it, your purpose is in my, you know, my opinion. So please take what is relevant and leave the rest. But I believe that your purpose is to be your fullest embodied expression, whatever that looks like for you, right?

[00:08:43] It might look like being a parent. It might look like being a, an entrepreneur. Like myself it might look like doing good work in the world. You know, whatever that is for you, whatever makes you come alive. anD in fact, for me, that [00:09:00] thing was dance, right? So I started dancing when I was a 16 year old and I had no idea I would be a dance movement therapist and a transpersonal art therapist.

[00:09:11] So speaking of transpersonal, I'm going to get back to Back to what is the transpersonal? So we talked about psycho spiritual, we talked about transcendence, transcendence and tapping into these other realms and dimensions of experience. The spectrum of consciousness is another key Aspect of the transpersonal approach.

[00:09:37] And the idea is that we all have available to us, human beings have available to us a whole spectrum of consciousness. What we're in right now is what we might call the ordinary waking state of consciousness. Right. You wake up in the morning and you brush your teeth and you do your work and you do [00:10:00] stuff in the ordinary waking state.

[00:10:03] Before you woke up though, you were in sleep state, right? So that's a whole other state of consciousness. It's a whole other world when we're sleeping, which we're Mostly not aware of unless you you're a lucid dreamer and then dream state as a whole other state of consciousness as well and that gives you an idea of How each of these states is like a whole world in and of itself and in that world You will express certain aspects of yourself, but you will have access to certain strengths and resources that you don't have in your ordinary waking state.

[00:10:46] And I think this is what makes me really passionate about it because we don't learn this. We, we know about meditation, for example, and meditation has become really popular. What are the resources you get from [00:11:00] meditation? You get to relax your body, you get to activate all of your natural self healing capacities.

[00:11:09] You get to release stress and you know, these days all of that has been commodified and commercialized. So you can use it for high performance and, you know, get more productive and all of those types of things. But those are basically the resources that you get from this state of consciousness. Right, so you have at the one end of the spectrum meditative states, or what we might call trophotropic states.

[00:11:38] That's the. technical term. And then on the other hand, you have the more activated states, right? So dancing, art making, trance dance, ecstatic dance has, you know, become a thing in the world these days. Those are all the other end of the spectrum, which is what we call [00:12:00] ergotropic states. So we have trophotropic states, which are the relaxed states, and we have ergotropic states, which are the activated states.

[00:12:09] But instead of being a line, it's a circle. Because the further you go down the path of meditative states, and the further you go down the path of ecstatic states, they both meet. In what we might call nirvana or enlightenment, or, you know, many different cultures have a different terminology for that state of consciousness, but yeah, so, so this, what I've actually, what I've just described is called the Fisher's model for anyone who wants to look that up and it's a model of states of consciousness and.

[00:12:51] This brings me, another segue, this brings me to maps of consciousness. So one of the [00:13:00] aspects of transpersonal psychology or the transpersonal approach as well, which I think is really important to highlight is that it is one of the most inclusive models because it recognizes traditional cultures and traditional maps of consciousness.

[00:13:21] So, for example, the chakra system is a map of consciousness. Tibetan Book of the Dead is a map of consciousness. These are all different maps. All cultures had their own maps of consciousness and they were pathways for humans to evolve, essentially. I'm just taking my,

[00:13:44] You, you're noticing me look away now.

[00:13:46] I'm, I'm, I didn't notice,

[00:13:48] I was like, Oh, okay. She's taking down some notes. Yeah, it's this is obviously come from pretty much my lifetime of, of [00:14:00] study, self study and research and experience and, and also formal education. So it's sort of like. iT's bringing together, and this is actually why I've been sort of excited to have this conversation as well, because it gives me a chance to articulate these things that I've brought together over a lifetime of experience of mine.

[00:14:19] working with bodies and people and and also the research. So it's, it's inclusive. It recognizes traditional approaches and then sort of brings it into the 21st century. With these sort of, you know, the ideas and understandings of consciousness. So that's the the modern and, and contemporary, contemporary and traditional.

[00:14:53] You know, combination of those two that, that all comes under the umbrella [00:15:00] of the, the transpersonal approach. And what else would I like to add to that? I'm going to look at my notes as well. So I'll have the fourth wave, spectrum of consciousness, maps of consciousness, spirituality, the psycho spiritual approach, transcendence.

[00:15:20] Peak experiences, maybe we can touch on that. Maybe people have heard about flow states and peak experiences. So peak experiences are when we have, we, we have a taste of what I just described as being, you know, at the top of that Fisher's model of consciousness. So we, we actually get a taste of unity consciousness.

[00:15:50] Right? We get a taste of No, I

[00:15:51] just If I may, this, I guess, state that you kind of keep referring back to, is this almost a [00:16:00] natural state that one might induce by taking psychedelics? Or is this something entirely different?

[00:16:08] Not, you don't need psychedelics to experience a state of consciousness. When you meditate, you're experiencing an altered state of consciousness.

[00:16:20] When you laugh, right? So expression of emotional, emotional states, each state is a state of consciousness. So it's just looking through the lens of consciousness, everything then starts to become you know, so you either have your ordinary waking state of consciousness and, you know, having sort of normal emotional states would come within.

[00:16:45] That umbrella playing a sport that would change your state of consciousness, performing, you know, being a performing artist, massive change in your state of [00:17:00] consciousness, making art. And this is where the art therapy and dance therapy comes into it. So. Any kind of creative act is altering your state of consciousness.

[00:17:11] Having coffee is altering your state of consciousness. Eating sugar. I certainly feel

[00:17:16] that when I have the first

[00:17:17] one of the day. Yeah. Sugar is altering your state of consciousness. What we call drugs, whether they are legal or illegal. Because there's lots of legal drugs that we consume, they're all altering our state of consciousness.

[00:17:32] So great, great, great question because we think of it as this sort of esoteric something other than what we're actually experiencing on a day to day. When you work out, you're altering your state of consciousness, right? So states of consciousness are physiological. So biological, psychological, emotional, and energetic states.[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Because we are all of those four things. We are physical beings, we're emotional beings, we're psychological beings, and we're energetic beings. Right? So, anything that's altering that, and you might start to notice that a little bit more now, you know, just having that concept in your mind, you might notice through the course of your day, you know, depression is an altered state of consciousness if you're in that state for an extended period of time.

[00:18:28] Even as you were listing, you know, the coffee and the working out and the dancing, I was thinking back, you know, to how I feel when I do some of those activities and I mean, I, I'm not a dancer, but I do love to dance and I do, I like to do it when I'm home alone and I turn up the music really loud and I dance in the living room or in the kitchen.

[00:18:47] And I do it because I feel great when I do it, there's no judgment. It's just me. And I feel really free and happy.

[00:18:55] That's it. And I'm going to push back at you because everyone was a dancer [00:19:00] before they learned to speak. But you don't say I'm not a speaker, I don't really, you know, but somewhere along the way we either were told or we learned that we are not these things.

[00:19:13] We're not dancers, we don't create, we don't make art, we don't sing, but that's only if you were to do it professionally. And that's a totally different thing, but as human beings, look at the animal kingdom to see, you know, where we've come from, from an evolutionary context. Look at the, the, I always have these image of, you know, those exotic tropical birds, the, the male birds doing this whole thing to attract their mate,

[00:19:46] mating

[00:19:46] dance.

[00:19:47] Exactly right. Look at babies. Before they learn to speak, they're expressing themselves through their bodies, right? You look at a toddler and you put the music [00:20:00] on with a nice, like if you put heavy metal, they're just going to start doing this. I'm sorry for the, for the chair sounds as I do that because we're hardwired for it.

[00:20:12] We're hardwired, meaning those neural pathways already exist at birth. We're hardwired. It's not something that we learn along the way. We're born with the capacity to move, to dance, to use our voice for expression, to tap into, speaking of states of consciousness, you know, voice and sound is tapping into those frequencies.

[00:20:41] Right. Coming back to the chakra system, each, each energy center is a different frequency. It's a different state of consciousness. And through using sound, like the Tibetan singing bowls or the crystal singing bowls that I use, or using vocal sounds like [00:21:00] mantras or chanting, because of course, the ancients knew about these consciousness technologies.

[00:21:07] You know, so what we call dance and music and sound, these are consciousness technologies. They're mind altering technologies. They're psyche altering technologies, but we have you know, as Ian McGilchrist talks about in his book, The Master and His Emissary, which is all about. left brain and right brain.

[00:21:33] You know, we, we're living in a left brain dominant society, which is reductionist materialism and concretization of everything and a diminishing of all of these other. Aspects of what it means to be human, you know, so I'll just pause there because I've just kind of [00:22:00] Dropped a few bombs in that and there's a few different different threads and wondering is sort of coming up for you as you, as you hear that.

[00:22:13] I

[00:22:14] think I'm just trying to take it all in. It's all very, you know, new to me. Some of the, some of the things that you're saying, you know, really resonate with me. I do a lot of chakra work myself, so I'm really familiar with all that. I'm just really, I was really interested to know or to hear, you know, And I guess to reflect on all of the different states of consciousness, because I kind of think of, of on a really basic level, you know, I think of it as I'm awake and I'm asleep and I think of it as I'm either impacted by drugs or I'm not, you know, and I, beyond that, I guess I've never really thought, and I mean, I, I.

[00:22:52] Now that you've mentioned it, you know, understand that in meditation in that sort of a way. But I guess I've never [00:23:00] acknowledged it as such a broad spectrum is what you're describing it as. Mm-Hmm. . So it's making my wheels turn and tick a little .

[00:23:07] Yes. Maybe I can bring it back down to, you know, your opening question.

[00:23:14] What is a dance movement therapist and a transpersonal art therapist? So I've given you a little bit of the context and the framework, but. If I describe to you a session with a client, for example, that might help to understand how we might use this in a practical sense. Right? So I work with a lot of highly traumatized people.

[00:23:42] Right. And one of the things about how we cope with, with trauma or how we evolved to cope with trauma is we disconnect from the body, right? Because the body is, I want to say like the scene of the [00:24:00] crime, you know, the body is holding the trauma as well as. The body is the pathway to heal the trauma, but initially when, where, when we experienced the trauma, because it is overwhelming for us in that moment and that technically is, is the, the latest definition of trauma, by the way, is, is not what happened to you, but it's an experience that in the moment is too overwhelming for your, for you.

[00:24:31] nervous system and also you, you know, basically your whole, you know, your nervous system is within the body, mind. system. So basically it's too much for you to cope with. And the clients I work with, you know, often that it starts in childhood. So there's a lot of disconnection, dissociation, which is sort of taking it to the next level where, you know, people might experience, [00:25:00] you know, things like maybe coming to the end of the day and finding out that you've hurt yourself and you're like, How did that happen?

[00:25:08] I don't even know when did I hit myself? And that's actually giving you a sign that you were not in your body at that time, so you didn't notice, but you were so out of your body that you have no memory whatsoever. So sometimes that can be, uh, an example of dissociation. Another example is where you know your body is here, but you are somewhere else.

[00:25:37] You know, you completely zone out, you've completely missed the thread of what was being spoken about in the conversation that you're in, you know, so those are different versions of it. But basically the, the reason I'm getting into that is what this means to me is that this person in their ordinary waking state of [00:26:00] consciousness is disconnected from their body.

[00:26:04] Right. And so while they

[00:26:05] may not be really conscious of this event or trauma that's occurred, the impact that it has on their, you know, I guess, body mind connections is still very

[00:26:17] real. 100%. And that is a really key word, the impact of trauma. When we work with trauma, we're not going into the trauma. It's like Fight Club.

[00:26:33] The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club. First rule of trauma is we don't talk about the trauma. We don't need to talk about it because it will just re traumatize the person. Because Already you've established if, if, if it was traumatic, it was too overwhelming for this person's nervous system to hold, right?

[00:26:56] We, we, we build the capacity of the [00:27:00] nervous system in, in therapeutic work. So this person comes in, in their normal state of consciousness. they're quite disconnected from their body. They might also have what's called traumatic stress. So people who are hypervigilant, always looking for danger. You know, that's what we might call sympathetic activation, which is one of the fight, flight, freeze.

[00:27:33] I think this is now becoming common terminology. People may have heard about fight, flight, and freeze. And then the fourth one, which is fawn, basically your nervous system is not regulated. And that's what we call dysregulation, right? So in a dysregulated state, You're, you're, you're looking for, for danger, you're anxious, [00:28:00] you might have a lot of anxious thoughts, you might be scared and looking for, for the next bad thing to happen around the corner, right?

[00:28:11] People might relate to an example of someone coming back from, from military service, you know, when, when they come back and they hear. A car backfire, that sound is like a gunshot, and what do they do, they crouch down, like it's just an automatic response because it's instinctual, that's exactly right, because this is what we evolved to.

[00:28:41] to do. If it was a lion or a tiger coming at us, we needed to run or if we had a weapon, we needed to fight. And then we needed to remember that, okay, in that area is the lion. So when I go into that area of the [00:29:00] jungle, I need to be constantly on the lookout, right? But someone who's had trauma and is continuing to experience the impacts of trauma gets stuck always looking for those lions and tigers.

[00:29:17] They get stuck in that state. Now that's a nervous system state, but we can also call that a state of consciousness. Right? So I will often start with some kind of mindfulness practice. Now, mindfulness is a really bad word because it's the opposite of the word. Your mind is not full, you know, you're not filling your mind with stuff.

[00:29:48] You're paying attention through your senses to what is right here in this moment. And, and that starts to [00:30:00] activate different parts of the brain. I'm touching this because it's the prefrontal cortex, right? It's the front part of the brain for those who may be listening and not watching this video. I Can't help, but you know, I'm a dance therapist and so much in my body.

[00:30:18] I can't help but make all these actions cause this is actually the part that switches off when we're traumatized, right? Because as you said, instinct where we go into the instinctual parts of the brain, which again, anyone listening will not be able to see that I'm holding a fist at the back of my head and that is representing the amygdala.

[00:30:41] which is the thing that is firing warning signals. So if you're a person who's, who's always feeling like there's danger very close by, there's always warning signals. And I used to be that kind of person as [00:31:00] well. And how I used to deal with that was Over planning and over controlling and micromanaging because that's one of the ways we make ourselves feel safe.

[00:31:13] All right. When, when the whole world is dangerous, the way that we can make ourselves feel safe is by controlling our little patch of the world. It all sounds very exhausting. It is very exhausting. And that's why the breathing and then the slowing down and then tapping into. an altered state of consciousness, which is also altering your physiology, it's altering your brain states.

[00:31:45] You know, we've also got now the science to back up, um, alpha, beta, gamma wave states of the brain. Those are states of consciousness as well. So the way [00:32:00] I use it is that I, I look at what this person needs to connect with, what's missing. What I've described is, is when there's sympathetic activation and they're in a fight or flight, which is a mobilized state, right?

[00:32:19] We either need to punch or we need to run. So there's all this cortisol and all these mobilizing chemicals in the body to help us. Either get out of there or to fight back, but if we can't do it either of those we go into a freeze state Which is what we call playing possum, right? so when you just when we see animals do it they play dead right because It is a more primitive coping mechanism.

[00:32:54] So there's a hierarchy, and I started with the ones at the top. So fight and flight is [00:33:00] at the top. And it's also, they are the, the more recent parts of the brain that evolved. And now we're going back to more primitive parts of the brain. So we either freeze. And then the last one is just complete shutdown.

[00:33:18] So complete shutdown is when you're like a zombie, right? And

[00:33:24] so I guess I'm curious, what do you do? You know, you have someone who's, and I want to say the word finally, because I'm sure that people don't automatically think, okay, I'm going to go in. Seek help for this because they're so maybe just they don't know what to do and they're just stuck So when somebody does come and see you or makes an inquiry How do you get them started because I can't imagine somebody walking through the door and again I guess this is why I'm asking, you know Share with me what a session might look like because if I think I'm signing up for dance therapy I presume that I'm going to walk into a room with either [00:34:00] a group of people or you and you're going to direct me to dance.

[00:34:04] But how do you open somebody up to feeling like they can do that, feeling comfortable doing that, you know, because I'm sure regardless of if, you know, you're, you're suffering from trauma, you're probably going to feel silly, you know, about doing these things. So how do you kind of get that started, that whole process?

[00:34:24] Great question. There's, there's two parts to that. So I'll start with the first one, which is that the clients that I mentioned who are highly traumatized. These are people who have experienced exploitation, slavery, and servitude by the legal definitions in Australia. All right. So our organization, the organization called that I work with is called HerSpace.

[00:34:49] And we work in collaboration with the Australian Federal Police and the Red Cross who has something called the STPP [00:35:00] program, which is the Survivors of Trafficking Program. When they come through these organizations, as you can imagine, they're already in a devastated state. And the level of awareness that they have around their own trauma is a lot greater, more so for the more recent trauma.

[00:35:30] But what I actually find with my her space clients is that And I don't know whether this goes right across the board, but often very highly traumatized people are also very highly sensitive people. They're what we might call HSPs, which is highly sensitive people, highly sensitive person. And there's an online test for anyone who would like to self assess whether they're a highly sensitive [00:36:00] person or not.

[00:36:02] And this highly sensitive person, as the name describes, is very attuned to their senses. It's very attuned to what they see, hear, taste, smell, you know, and feel and their level of awareness is actually quite high. So like I might have a client who has ended up in a situation where they were coerced or manipulated into Doing things that they didn't want to do, let's say, because this is all forms of exploitation and slavery and servitude, which I'm not sure if we want to go into this time, but you know, it's not what people think it looks like.

[00:36:43] Let's put it that way. More often than not, it's through people that you know. And to people who have groomed you over a long period of time and preyed on your vulnerability. sO they, you know, very quickly, I found that when I just [00:37:00] offer this transpersonal embodied approach, it's not even about dancing because people think that dance means you're going to do some choreographed, you know, and a one and a two and a five and a six, you know, just breathing.

[00:37:17] can be a dance. Those little micro movements that your spine makes or the first time you allow your spine to move with fluidity as you breathe is a dance. The first time you have an opportunity to feel the sensations in your body and to move with those sensations and allow them full expression. That is a dance.

[00:37:48] And so a dance can be really small micro movements. The point is. For me, the magic is when the movement turns into a dance, [00:38:00] right? So I might invite someone when we start off, if they're really in one of those agitated states and just sitting and breathing, you know, is, is like, it's too far away from what their current state is.

[00:38:18] As a dance movement therapist, one of the key aspects of the training is meet your client where they are at. And then we can go together to the places that we need to go, but we need to, I need to meet them there first. So if they're really agitated, you know, those people who can't stop shaking and you know, the, the legs always shaking or something's always tapping.

[00:38:43] It's what we call shadow movements. Okay. And that shadow movement is telling me um, it's giving me some information depending on which part of the body is moving. The quality of that movement, like, is it, uh, really heavy, you know, is it [00:39:00] a strong movement? Is it a light movement? So that, that's getting into the, you know, the language and vocabulary of movement.

[00:39:09] So coming back to so we meet the client where they're at, and I might ask this client who's a little bit more agitated. We might start off with sort of doing a body part warm up. So warming up all the different parts of body, just moving them in a gentle way. And then. Inviting the client to move in a way that feels good for you today or what part of your body wants to move today.

[00:39:37] So it's, it's also tapping into different sources of intelligence, not just cognition. As we, we've become a society that only values logical reasoning and, you know, cognitive intelligence as [00:40:00] intelligence, but there's actually many different forms of intelligence. In fact, our, our gut has the most number of brain cells in the body, right?

[00:40:09] We have a gut brain. We have neurons or brain cells around the heart. We have hard intelligence. We have gut intelligence. So over time, that's what I actually work. to words is helping clients to reconnect with these three sources of intelligence. So I touched the center of my forehead and I would call that intuitive intelligence.

[00:40:38] So not just thought, but intuition. Heart intelligence, most people kind of have a sense of what I mean by heart intelligence, like if you were to ask your heart what it needs right now, you would most likely get a response. Maybe not one you want to listen to, but you will [00:41:00] get a response, right? And then the gut intelligence, your instinct.

[00:41:05] which is something that we have to disentangle from those trauma pathways because the instinct has become stuck, right? We hear a lot,

[00:41:15] You know, what does your gut tell you, right?

[00:41:17] Yes, but what does your gut tell you when you're stuck in your amygdala firing? So imagine a siren is ringing all the time in your gut.

[00:41:28] So what is your gut going to say? It's danger or you learn not to trust your gut because your gut has either led you into really dangerous situations and that is what happens when you've grown up in a chaotic, traumatic abusive home, your gut doesn't know how to read those red flags because that's what what home was like.

[00:41:54] So that just feels normal, right? So we disentangle [00:42:00] those from the healthy expression of what is, what is your body? Saying about this situation as you're talking,

[00:42:10] it brings to me about, you know, and I know we've said it already with the money that I keep saying money, the body, mind connection, you know, it's really about.

[00:42:21] You do you have to be in tune with your body and not just be in this and I'm going to use the word conscious now And I'm conscious that I'm now using this but it's you have to be conscious of what your body is telling you And as you're speaking, I mean, I'm taking in a lot, which is why I'm not saying a whole lot as you're speaking But I'm thinking of different situations and I'm thinking about how I approach different problems that I might have or things that might come up in my life.

[00:42:50] And I, I do find myself, okay, yes, I'm gonna make my pros and cons list, but mm-hmm, , what does my heart and my gut say exactly? And they're not always saying the [00:43:00] same thing. Now that I'm really kind of thinking about it, and it's, it's, it's about really having that connection there. And, and you're right.

[00:43:07] Trusting that, yes. And knowing how to

[00:43:09] interpret it. Absolutely. And that thing of head, heart and gut are not always saying the same thing. That's a dance in and of itself. Can you allow that dance to unfold, right? Can you reconnect, like I remember one of my clients with the first time. I did with her this process of tuning into, so bringing your awareness into the you know, your, your third eye chakra.

[00:43:43] So it's, you know, third eye is between your eyes, behind your forehead, in the center of your skull, that area. So just bringing your awareness there and noticing. What comes up and and this is having an expanded, you know, [00:44:00] one of the things about the transpersonal approach is that it expands your conscious awareness.

[00:44:05] We hear a lot about, you know, conscious evolution or awakening or ascension these days is very popular, but you can't do any of that with without descending down into your body and expanding your awareness around. the sensations, or what we call, what's called interoception. Interoceptive awareness is awareness of sensations.

[00:44:33] Proprioceptive awareness is awareness of your body as you're moving. Kinesthetic awareness as well is another way, right? Like how do you balance? How do you find your balance as you're moving? So there's all these other things that come online when we're not just sitting and talking and using our left brain because all these things that we've talked about, these are all right [00:45:00] brain stuff, moving, creating, meditating, dancing, connecting into the body, noticing sensations, all.

[00:45:12] The other side of the brain that most people are not using. So where were we? I was talking about how we use the transpersonal. So we're using the, you know, this, the, what I call state change in the transpersonal approach. We call it state change. Okay, it's a core of what we do. So I'm using state change by maybe inviting some conscious breathing.

[00:45:37] I'm using state change by inviting some movement and expressing the body in a different way. I think you gave a great example of, you know, when you're trying to make decisions and you, you map out the pros and cons and that, but then you still also check in with your body. That's essentially what we're doing in therapy is, [00:46:00] is facilitating that reconnection with the wisdom.

[00:46:06] With your innate wisdom, right? With the, with those places of inner knowing that part of you that knows. And here's the thing that inner knowing often goes diametrically opposite to rational thought.

[00:46:24] When

[00:46:27] I left India. To come to a country that I'd never been to, that I didn't know anyone, to study a course that no one had ever heard of, when I was doing

[00:46:38] really well.

[00:46:40] in

[00:46:41] my country doing what I was doing was my initiation, right? And it's an initiation. Initiation comes from that model of the hero's journey, comes from traditional cultures where you are initiated into your adulthood. [00:47:00] You know, that's why we have rites of passage. which still exists in many different cultures, in the Jewish tradition, in the Hindu tradition.

[00:47:09] We have this rites of passage. It's an initiation where you follow the inner calling, you follow that place of inner knowing. But the problem is that It's taking you into the unknown and we don't like, the ego doesn't like the unknown. It's scary. And we freak the out. And even after all these years of continuously jumping off a cliff, only because my body has told me, it's like, okay, buddy, I'm trusting you.

[00:47:49] I'm trusting you. And I'm doing this. But like, it better be okay, because it's scary ass doing this. [00:48:00] And coming

[00:48:01] back to that, you know, that connection, it's like sometimes you just know something. You know, you don't have proof, there's no confirmation, there's no tick, but you know something. But you still want a different outcome, so you still kind of try, you know, you still kind of try for something, and it just doesn't work, because that's not, it's not there.

[00:48:18] It never

[00:48:18] does, because you knew, because there was something in you that knew, and you can call that soul, or you can call that intuition, or you can call, you know, we don't, like, When we get into these realms, words are not enough, right? The language is limited and that's why I use the non verbal. That's why we move together in a session.

[00:48:53] That's why clients will draw instead of trying to put into words because [00:49:00] it's beyond words. That's what the expressive arts therapies is all about. addressing things that are beyond words. Even emotions sometimes there's, you know, the depth and breadth of it. It's difficult to put into words and words are so limiting.

[00:49:22] I love I'm trying to remember which podcast it was on because I'm a bit of a podcast junkie as well. I love this idea that words are just merely pointing to something in the human experience. So when I use the word tree, it's pointing to something but it could not possibly be able to capture the magnificence of a tree.

[00:49:53] Yeah. Right. But we have reduced ourselves to concrete, [00:50:00] finite um, limited, Known, like everything has to be known. And

[00:50:08] I find that, sorry, I find that in English in particular, it's like that because I know in learning other languages and, or, you know, exploring, I really enjoy I only speak you know, French and Spanish in addition to English, but I enjoy kind of looking at other languages and, and looking at different words.

[00:50:27] And the more you kind of get to know a language or the vocabulary within a language. And the way an individual who speaks that language expresses themselves, it's completely different I find. There's a completely different way that they're projecting themselves on other people and the way they're interpreting what others are saying.

[00:50:49] And I hope what I'm saying is making sense. You know, sometimes I find I want to express myself in French or in Spanish, depending on the topic, because I have the [00:51:00] different words that translate to a direct English word, but that makes sense in the language itself in a different manner. 100%. Yeah. And in addition to that, languages, you know, like German who have words for really specific sounds or really specific feelings that we don't have the words for in English.

[00:51:22] You know, but when you hear it in German, you know, it's one word and there's a sentence that explains it. You know, the feeling of this when this happens. And you know that feeling on the inside, but there is no word for that in English.

[00:51:35] Yes. You know? A hundred percent.

[00:51:37] I'm always very interested in that in, I think it just, you know, if we could all, if we could understand this universal language, I think we would be able to appreciate feelings and thoughts on a much deeper level.

[00:51:52] Yes. I'm very, it's something I'm very interested in, so it's a little bit of a tangent there, but it just goes to show about the words, not having the [00:52:00] words.

[00:52:00] Absolutely. And also what you're, what you're reflecting back, Amy, is how words shape our reality, right? They shape our reality in a way that. Is hard to understand until you learn another language, right?

[00:52:18] It reminds me of cause I teach Bollywood dance and there's so many words in Hindi that just do not translate to English. And the other thing is, like, for example, there are more than a hundred different words for love. Because the love between parents and the love between siblings and the love that you have for your animal and, you know, these are all different forms of love, but in English it's just love.

[00:52:54] Yeah.

[00:52:55] And I, it's a, that's another thing that I, I've had this conversation before [00:53:00] because I know people. And they are, are all of Western descent. So they're either Australian or North American. And they've said, well, no, you can only love your family. You, you only feel love for your siblings, your parents, and then your children and your spouse.

[00:53:17] I'm like, I don't only feel love for my family. I do love my family, but I love my friends. I love the people I'm close with. I love, you know, my coworkers. I love my dog. I do not love them all the same way, much the same as I don't love my parents, the same as I love my husband. I'm not in love with my parents, but the love I have for them is so profound, but it's not the same as the love I have for my husband or my sibling.

[00:53:43] 100%. And then if you take that a step further, what about love as a state of consciousness? Right? Love as an essential aspect of the human state of consciousness. [00:54:00] So that's what, what, when we go into, you know, love is who you are, it's not what you do. It's, it's, it's an inherent state of your being in the world and comes back to this transpersonal lens because what your family, you know, the people who describe love is just being, you know, between your family and whatnot.

[00:54:22] Yes, from the perspective of the ego, you know, the ego has. A limited self identity, but when you go into the transpersonal, we're not just identifying the small self that what Jung calls self with the small S and he calls self with a capital S that is a transcendent identity, right? So when you expand beyond, this is just little old me in this physical flesh body, even though my skin [00:55:00] is porous, let's just say that's separating me from the rest of the planet, then you're going to think in those terms.

[00:55:06] And yes, from the perspective of ego, that's 100 percent true. But when you expand beyond the ego, because when you, when you have those peak experience states, and I have had those states whether through psychedelics or without psychedelics, you experience a love that's all encompassing. You experience that love, which is It's actually a state of, of consciousness, which is who we are because we are in connect interconnected with the whole web of life where interconnected with the whole cosmos.

[00:55:50] And that is self with a capital S or the soul self. Or the spirit or [00:56:00] again, words, you know, it's beyond words. It's hard to hard to describe it in language, but both of those, can you see how in the transpersonal model it's yes. And so I didn't say that that ego perspective was wrong. Yes, it is true from that level of consciousness.

[00:56:20] That's true. But if you go into more expanded states of consciousness. This is also true. So it's a yes and

[00:56:31] model. And I just can't help but wonder, you know, if we did have more words for love, would people feel differently about that and be more willing to express the love that they might have for a friend or And be

[00:56:42] less attached in a toxic way to love that is not healthy.

[00:56:48] Right? And, and, and we, we can then spread it around a lot more. Although it, it's probably I mean, I don't want to make it a [00:57:00] cultural thing, but I do think that sort of group cultures versus individualistic cultures think very differently about love and relationship and community and belonging. And you know, I think it is like these things that we're touching on right now.

[00:57:18] I, I, I really believe that this is the medicine of our time. You know, we need to get beyond. our little ego self and recognize that we are, we don't have just a single identity. We're getting caught up, you know, in, in a single fixed identity when actually we are multitudes. You are not just one thing. You are all the things in one.

[00:57:49] Like Rumi says, you are the ocean in the drop, right? You're not just the drop in the ocean. You're the ocean in the drop. And also this, this idea of [00:58:00] expanded definition of love and, and getting into more left brained, Experience of the world where we're all interconnected and we can not get so caught up in fixing things in concrete, you know, and and and not get so caught up in making everything known and finite because we're We're cutting ourselves off from the mystery.

[00:58:34] We're cutting ourselves off from magic. We're cutting ourselves off from synchronicity. Speaking of states of consciousness, you know, for those who may not know what synchronicity is, it's when you have those weird mind blowing coincidences. Right. And again, Carl Jung speaks to that in such [00:59:00] a beautiful way where it's not just that those things are lining up, but that we're tapping into deeper states of consciousness in ourself.

[00:59:11] You know, this takes me into the realm of the unconscious, the personal unconscious, the family unconscious. The cultural unconscious and the collective unconscious. So when we have those synchronicities, we're actually starting to tap into deeper, more collective states of unconscious. Just take a pause there.

[00:59:37] That's a

[00:59:38] lot. I've made a lot of notes.

[00:59:40] Ah. Yes, I'm also going to pause there because I feel like my consciousness goes far out into the cosmos and then I've got to sort of Bring it back into okay. Yes, feel your feet on the floor Feel yourself sitting in this chair in this moment in time a light coming through my [01:00:00] window Inviting the audience members as well to just take a moment to be here now as Ram Dass Is to say be in this moment with your senses open, taking it all in the magnificence and the mystery of every single, let's say, you know, this is why it's called the present, right?

[01:00:24] Because it's a gift. But until we start to tap into these realms of experience, we. Completely miss it and get caught up in the rat race,

[01:00:38] very easy to you know, not enjoy the moment and you're so busy and it's exciting. You know, you're, you could be doing something that you really love, but you need to pause and just think, Oh, look, this is where I am and, and take a moment or, you know, just sit with that.

[01:00:52] And, but how many people do what they really love, right? That's, that's more need [01:01:00] to, and, and a lot of the time they don't because of unhealed trauma. Yeah. That's the sad thing. Kathy Malchiodi or Malchiodi, I never quite know how to pronounce her name, but she is one of the the elders in the, expressive arts therapy community.

[01:01:21] She talks about, uh, the circle of capacity as a model of working with trauma. And one of the words that she uses that I use as well is enlivenment. Yeah, it's, it's bringing the life force back into your life experience. What makes you come alive? What brings you joy, right? Like that I think it's a Joseph Campbell quote about follow your bliss, right?

[01:01:53] Follow your bliss and where the doors were closed, they will open. But how many [01:02:00] people do that? How many people are stuck in that? Ordinary waking state, ego consciousness of, you know, limited. And I mean, I would also add poverty consciousness based chakra stuff of there is not enough.

[01:02:18] I was just going to make you know, a personal or bring up a personal experience with a close friend I was chatting to who.

[01:02:27] is really ready to move on and do something new, but the unknown, you know, it's what if it doesn't happen? What if I make the wrong choice? What if I then can't go back to what I was doing before? What if the money isn't enough? So

[01:02:43] I can answer all those questions. Do you want to say, ask them again? And I'll answer all those questions.

[01:02:48] I

[01:02:49] always say, you know, and I hope I'm not kind of steering them down the wrong path, but I just say, you're taking all the right steps. in, to, to achieve [01:03:00] a goal that you have felt deep down that it's something you want to do. You know, the universe is going to provide for you. You are not going out and running out into the middle of the street, not knowing, not without evaluating your path first.

[01:03:13] You have decided, you've reflected, spend a lot of time reflecting on what you want to do. Drawing up a plan based on this reflection and you're stepping forward. And I said, you know, if you're just stepping forward and making the right Decisions based on how you're feeling about the situation you're in.

[01:03:34] You know, that positive feeling that you're having, then, you know, how could that fail? And that's something I truly believe, as terrifying as it is to put your trust in that, I, I genuinely believe that, you know, the universe pays back for that. It, you, you are rewarded.

[01:03:55] But can I ask, have you had? multiple [01:04:00] experiences that have, that have proven to you this truth.

[01:04:07] Like you, you may be the first time, yeah.

[01:04:10] I'm reflecting on a conversation that having had with a friend, but based on my own personal experiences, the reason why I'm, I'm sharing this is because for me that's happening, you know, for me.

[01:04:23] So it's happening now, that's it's a present moment,

[01:04:27] you know, things like that.

[01:04:28] I'm not saying that things have blown up and you know, I'm going viral and you know, but I'm saying that the things that I'm doing, I'm really having a lot of fun with still and they are being profitable in ways that, and I don't just mean monetary, but in ways that I, that I expected them to be in the ways that I need them to be.

[01:04:47] And

[01:04:49] yes, and that's, so there's two. Parts of what you've just shared. One is the trust piece. Okay. And trust is [01:05:00] is a double edged sword because it is trust in yourself. So what I would be saying to your friend is that I trust that inner impulse in you. All right. Because it's about giving the power back to the person and also placing knowledge back inside the person that rather than outside, because we live in a world where knowledge.

[01:05:32] And power supposedly exists outside of us. But that's not true. Yes. So I would say to your friend that I trust, and I say this to my clients very often, I trust the impulse in you that is moving you towards that thing, even though you don't know yet what that's going to [01:06:00] look like. Yes, and then we might do some sort of movement exploration where they've got to deal with the unknown, right?

[01:06:09] If I just say to you, allow your body to move in whatever way it wants to move. You're like, I don't know. It's like, that's exactly right. So you get to, in that moment, deal with how do you relate to doing something that is unknown to you? How do you improvise? Yes, and improvisation is an essential skill that most people don't have, which I now am, you know, really grateful for my 30 year dance career because that You, you bloody well have to learn how to do that, you know, so, so the trust in self and then the piece that you spoke to earlier, which is I trust that the universe.

[01:06:52] You know, it is, is a benevolent place. There's a book called [01:07:00] Primal Wound, which is all about whether we experienced our mother's womb as a safe space or not. Because if we didn't, if your mom, was um, drowning in stress hormones, then you as a fetus would experience it as not a safe place. And so that is what we take into the world.

[01:07:26] The world is not a safe place. Right? The world is dangerous. Everyone's out to get you, these are different expressions of that. So, so it's learning to trust yourself, learning to trust the world, and that comes from an internal felt sense. of safety. I'm really slowing down for this piece because it's a really important piece with all the chaos that we are [01:08:00] seeing because of information technology.

[01:08:02] We can now see things happening all over the world, which of course, as we speak, there is even more chaos playing out in the world and it makes us feel like what I've just described, right? The world is an unsafe It's dangerous and it can be if I was in that war zone. Of course it is, but sitting in my home, in my job, at the gym, in the, on the dance floor, it isn't.

[01:08:36] Yeah, so trust was the one piece and there was one other piece I wanted to speak to in that example that you were giving, um, and I think I've already covered it, which is, which is our relationship to the unknown and that, and that is a muscle that we can actually build and it feels like you're [01:09:00] building it right now because you're having that experience of, Oh, I've jumped off a cliff.

[01:09:04] Yeah. Hmm. And it's actually okay. Yeah. Ah, that, that brings me to the second point. The second point is about abundance and having a broader definition. Abundance is not just money. Yes. Money is one piece of it.

[01:09:23] Which can be a very hard lesson to learn or a reality to

[01:09:27] accept first and second chakra. So it's got all the trauma patterns, all our family patterns, all our ancestral stories around money, all the things like, for example, even just in my ancestry, my mother.

[01:09:43] Well, firstly, you know my pa before my, my parents were born just around the time that the British left, right? And we got, got independence and my mother's side of the family are from the North and [01:10:00] that was when Pakistan and India separated, right? So there's one. Ancestral story of having to leave everything behind because they were not Muslim and decided to come to this side of the border.

[01:10:17] And then in my mother's lifetime, she was in Kashmir and Kashmir, which is also in the north of India, is now currently and has been disputed territory for a long time. So she had a second round of having to leave everything behind except for the clothes on her back. Right. And so. What happens then is, is that the stories are about holding on tightly to what you have, right?

[01:10:45] Poverty consciousness is never enough. There's never enough.

[01:10:50] Or I could

[01:10:50] lose it at any moment. Or you could lose it at any moment. It's been taken away and can just go like that, right? Yeah. And, and that is, again, it's a yes [01:11:00] and thing because yes, that is true. And it doesn't have to be the truth. It doesn't have to be my truth.

[01:11:11] But this is again the lower energy centers that nobody wants to work on because everyone wants to ascend into higher dimensional realities. You know. I actually

[01:11:20] get quite a few clients. I do quite a lot of chakra work. And they immediately want to go to their third eye. Yes. I'll do their evaluation.

[01:11:29] Heart, throat, eye. That's all they want.

[01:11:32] We're working down here first, nothing,

[01:11:34] nothing down there, everything. Everybody wants to just go up, up and above. And it's like you know, you got to take your buddy with you. Even if you,

[01:11:42] So yeah. So expanding that, because I also heard that in, in your response about your business and how you were able to receive.

[01:11:53] The things that you were getting that were immaterial, meaning that they were [01:12:00] not concrete. And in the, in the Hindu context, we call it you know, the masculine and feminine is called Shiva and Shakti. So the masculine is the world of form, which is Shiva. So everything, like everything in this world that we can see and touch and feel, that is Shiva.

[01:12:23] Shakti, which is the feminine principle, is the formless. So all the stuff that doesn't have form, which is our inner world, which is what we you know, in, in this post colonial, patriarchal world that we've been living in for all this time, everything that's formless or invisible, doesn't exist, right?

[01:12:49] If it's not measurable, science is the, the science of the measurable world. And even scientists recognize that there are [01:13:00] worlds that we cannot measure and that our instruments have You know, we haven't we don't have the technology to measure even consciousness. We don't know where the hell consciousness is.

[01:13:15] Is it in our brain? Is it outside of us? There is the non local theory, non local meaning there is no, no location and it exists all around us. And funny thing that, because it sounds very much like what traditional cultures have said. All along, you know, so yes. So this, this, this journey of abundance, consciousness of coming from not enoughness, so I am not enough.

[01:13:50] There is not enough. There's not enough food. There's not enough money. There's not enough on the planet. There's a, you know, to [01:14:00] uh, a model to a consciousness of abundance, abundance, consciousness. That can be a journey of a lifetime. Yeah, absolutely. But I think the more people who make that journey the more we, we start to create a shared reality.

[01:14:21] That is based on abundance rather than what we're currently in, because the majority, the mainstream, you know, I haven't really been part of the mainstream for a long time, but you know, the, the mainstream model, this is why everyone is a hamster on a wheel. Because if you think that if you get off that wheel, um, lose, everything will collapse.

[01:14:50] Right? You will lose everything. You will lose this, that, the other. And as you're discovering, the things come to you [01:15:00] in different forms as you expand your capacity to receive. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I think that's the other piece that I work on a lot because a lot of my clients are really good at giving and over giving and over giving and neglecting that little inner voice that, Your friend is starting to hear, you know, and so they need to learn receiving.

[01:15:28] We receive so much from this planet, you know, it's a miracle. Life is a miracle. The fact that every breath you breathe, you know, each molecule of oxygen is sent to every single cell in your body. With each breath when you exhale out, you know, and, and, and that way we are given everything that we need by Mother Earth, right?

[01:15:57] By, by this universe, everything, [01:16:00] even all our technologies, it all comes from the earth in some shape or form. So. I feel like this whole conversation has gone, we've gone on that journey from reductionist materialism into a transpersonal and more expanded state. You know, I'm feeling that sense of like, it just, it opens your heart, your body just kind of relaxes a little bit, breathing slows down, the tone of voice drops a little bit.

[01:16:33] It's like we come back to who we actually are, you

[01:16:38] know. Anjali, it's been a wonderful session. I mean, I know you can tell I have a lot that I want to think about and reflect on more now, and I'm sure that anybody listening will feel the same. And I want to offer anybody who's listening a space to dive a little deeper, learn more.

[01:16:57] I'm going, I've written down, you know, some of the books that [01:17:00] you've mentioned, some of the organizations that you've mentioned, and I don't know if I've. Caught them all, I hope I have, but would there be space for anyone to reach out or contact you or learn more if you have a website? Of course. And if so, I'd love for you to kind of do a little, little pitch now, you know, tell us about your website or how someone could get in touch.

[01:17:21] Sure. I will also let listeners know that I'll share those resources in the description of the video and I would encourage anyone to just click on it and Yes. Have a look. Educate yourself. Yeah. And if you have questions, reach out. And if you don't, that's okay, too. But definitely have a read and feel no pressure when you're clicking on those links.

[01:17:40] So, Anjali, if you wouldn't

[01:17:42] mind. Yes, sure. Look, I will say if anyone is, is hearing an inner call or feeling an inner call, and that might just look like curiosity to go, hmm. What the hell? I really want to know.[01:18:00] I will, would invite you to do a free discovery call with me, which is. It's, you know, completely obligation free, but in that 30 minutes, I will take you through some of the states of consciousness that we, we talked about today.

[01:18:17] So if you have a particular issue or a decision that you're struggling with, or each feeling kind of lost, and when we talk about these things about passion and, and the things that make you come alive, you're at a loss. Or, or maybe you're starting to hear that little inner voice and you don't quite know how to proceed.

[01:18:41] Let's do a 30 minute call and we'll, we'll tap into your wisdom, not mine, right? I think that's what kind of makes my services hard to sell sometimes because I'm not selling me as the expert. I'm selling you as the expert of your own life. That place of inner knowing. Within you [01:19:00] that knows exactly what you are here for.

[01:19:03] So 30 minute discovery call my website. Which I'm sure Amy will, will share is Embracing Spirit. That's my business name. So you'll find me on all the socials. I've got a Facebook page, Embracing Spirit Instagram page. And yeah, even if you just have a curiosity about. So, anything that we've talked about today, I would love to hear your questions.

[01:19:32] Maybe we can do another chat somewhere down the track, Amy, if there's a bunch of questions or, you know, we can also just respond well, you can ask your questions in a review. If you review Amy's podcast and, and put your questions in there as well, that might be a really good way of sending us

[01:19:53] your questions.

[01:19:55] We could open up a space for you know, those questions if anybody, you know, you [01:20:00] are inclined to ask your question in review or maybe we could do a live kind of interactive Q& A.

[01:20:06] Yeah. Great. If there's, because that's what I'm more, you know, as I said, I'm more interested in drawing out and sort of waking up that, that inner impulse towards your own fullest expression and, yeah. I mean, you know, there'll be all the links that you can connect into. If you want to jump into a Bollywood class, I do a Monday evening online class. It's Bollywood dance for wellbeing. Yes. Even if you're just curious about how I, because I get deep in my Bollywood class, as you could imagine.

[01:20:44] Cause we're getting into, you know, language and the metaphors in the language and the poetry of, you know, because Hindi is thankfully Bollywood still retains like what Shakespeare was for the English language. That's what, [01:21:00] you know, we still have that poetry in the language and poetry. offers pathways to really tap into these deeper levels of consciousness.

[01:21:11] So yeah, I'm also, you know, probably going to be offering a few other things online as well. So follow me on the socials if you're curious and send me your questions because I struggle otherwise to, I'm not a content creator. I'm much more a sort of interactive person and I like responding and interacting with you guys.

[01:21:34] So Yeah. Thank you for anyone who has sat through this whole podcast. I feel like I've just been talking for a very long time. So thank you, Amy, as well for

[01:21:44] this space and this opportunity. Oh, It's been very valuable. Great. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you again for joining and anybody listening, again, check out the resources that I will list in the, in the description.

[01:21:57] And if you are interested [01:22:00] in attending a live Q and A with. Myself and Anjali absolutely let me know. You can comment on the video or if you're listening on Spotify or Apple, you can as Anjali mentioned, leave a review and pop your questions in there or you can reach out to me directly. So I look forward to hearing from you and thanks so much for listening today.

[01:22:20] Thanks everyone. Bye now.

[01:22:21] Thanks for joining me on the Holistic Health Show. If you enjoyed the episode, subscribe now and get ready to embark on an incredible journey toward holistic wellness. Until next time, be well and stay holistic. The Holistic Health Show

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